I have been posting and raving about him here for quite some time. BUT I seem to notice that his cooking times are off. I blamed myself at first. But the other night I did a chicken and rice from MB Cooks at Home. After sauteeing onions, then rice, you're supposed to add boiling water and raw chicken parts (which have had no other pre-cookign, browning etc.) and then cook for 20 minutes. That seemed awfully short to me, but I thought hey, I've cut the breast into 4, and separated wings and leg parts. Of course the drumstick was still bloody after 20 minutes, and even the rice was still crunchy (regular white rice). It needed more like 45 minutes. When I checked his other book for chicken and rice, I found arroz con pollo, chicken parts pre-browned, and cooking time with rice of *30* minutes, i.e. more time even though chicken already slightly cooked. I don't want to tell you how badly I misjudged the timing on the Christmas roast because I followed his instructions to the letter. Had I compared notes on timing with other cookbooks, and maybe asked somebody, I would have realized that his times were way too short to cook that prime rib. I had to keep putting it back in the oven for another hour, while the Yorkshire pudding collapsed, and the thing was still barely cooked. (My in-laws read my posts, and had I only asked them, they would have told me. So now my humiliation is revealed...) Can it be that he doesn't test his recipes? He seems so precise and organized... Others have posted about problems with his recipes. I feel so let down! His philosophy and _style_ and techniques make lots of sense to me, so I'm disappointed. (I do wonder why I take these cookbook crushes so personally...oh well, who else would understand besides you guys?) Leila

I have been posting and raving about him here for quite some time. BUT I seem to notice that his cooking times are off. I blamed myself at first. But the other night I did a chicken and rice from MB Cooks at Home. After sauteeing onions, then rice, you're supposed to add boiling water and raw chicken parts (which have had no other pre-cookign, browning etc.) and then cook for 20 minutes. That seemed awfully short to me, but I thought hey, I've cut the breast into 4, and separated wings and leg parts. Of course the drumstick was still bloody after 20 minutes, and even the rice was still crunchy (regular white rice). It needed more like 45 minutes. When I checked his other book for chicken and rice, I found arroz con pollo, chicken parts pre-browned, and cooking time with rice of *30* minutes, i.e. more time even though chicken already slightly cooked. I don't want to tell you how badly I misjudged the timing on the Christmas roast because I followed his instructions to the letter. Had I compared notes on timing with other cookbooks, and maybe asked somebody, I would have realized that his times were way too short to cook that prime rib. I had to keep putting it back in the oven for another hour, while the Yorkshire pudding collapsed, and the thing was still barely cooked. (My in-laws read my posts, and had I only asked them, they would have told me. So now my humiliation is revealed...) Can it be that he doesn't test his recipes? He seems so precise and organized... Others have posted about problems with his recipes. I feel so let down! His philosophy and _style_ and techniques make lots of sense to me, so I'm disappointed. (I do wonder why I take these cookbook crushes so personally...oh well, who else would understand besides you guys?) Leila A few months ago I mentioned to this group about an article that was in Consumers Reports. They wondered the very same thing about cookbooks in general. As a result, they established test kitchens to review well known cookbooks to see how well they are edited. Their results were that many don't. One who has continually tested her recipes was Julia. One who doesn't was Martha. They also mentioned quite a few others that do not. The main problems for offending authors are: deadlines, lack of staff(writer is responsible for proofing the recipes, not the publishers), too challenging a schedule for the authors. Quite a few people in RFC have mentioned over the years that they just use the recipes as a guide. I, for one, do the same. Generally speaking, I cook for two, not the usual four or six in most recipes. I first look it over to see if I have an interest in the ingredients, individually and collectively. Like you, over the years I have an understanding about how long certain ingredients should take to cook. Errors usually stand out like a sore thumb. Temp, time and quantity of ingredients that are the usual suspects. I like Bittman's recipes for the relative ease of their preparation. But, I do look his over quite closely. Julia, well Julia I just believe what she writes.

seem to notice that his cooking times are off. I blamed myself at first. But the other night I did a chicken and rice from MB Cooks at Home. After sauteeing onions, then rice, you're supposed to add boiling water and raw chicken parts (which have had no other pre-cookign, browning etc.) and then cook for 20 minutes. That seemed awfully short to me, but I thought hey, I've cut the breast into 4, and separated wings and leg parts. Of course the drumstick was still bloody after 20 minutes, and even the rice was still crunchy (regular white rice). It needed more like 45 minutes. When I checked his other book for chicken and rice, I found arroz con pollo, chicken parts pre-browned, and cooking time with rice of *30* minutes, i.e. more time even though chicken already slightly cooked. I don't want to tell you how badly I misjudged the timing on the Christmas roast because I followed his instructions to the letter. Had I compared notes on timing with other cookbooks, and maybe asked somebody, I would have realized that his times were way too short to cook that prime rib. I had to keep putting it back in the oven for another hour, while the Yorkshire pudding collapsed, and the thing was still barely cooked. (My in-laws read my posts, and had I only asked them, they would have told me. So now my humiliation is revealed...) Can it be that he doesn't test his recipes? He seems so precise and organized... Others have posted about problems with his recipes. I feel so let down! His philosophy and _style_ and techniques make lots of sense to me, so I'm disappointed. (I do wonder why I take these cookbook crushes so personally...oh well, who else would understand besides you guys?) I agree with Alan.  I've been very disappointed in some of the more recent cookbooks in my collection.  The editing is very poor.  In rare cases a recipe tester is hired to make sure they work according to plan.   I make adjustments for seasoning (inevitably too much salt is called for for my palate) and cooking time.  Then we have ingredients that never seem to be added in the directions, and we're left to guess where they go in. Leila, maybe we can forge new careers as recipe testers. Cindy

Leila Abu-Saba says... : I have been posting and raving about him here for quite some time. BUT I : seem to notice that his cooking times are off. I blamed myself at first. : But the other night I did a chicken and rice from MB Cooks at Home. : After sauteeing onions, then rice, you're supposed to add boiling water : and raw chicken parts (which have had no other pre-cookign, browning : etc.) and then cook for 20 minutes. That seemed awfully short to me, but : I thought hey, I've cut the breast into 4, and separated wings and leg : parts. : : Of course the drumstick was still bloody after 20 minutes, and even the : rice was still crunchy (regular white rice). It needed more like 45 : minutes. : : When I checked his other book for chicken and rice, I found arroz con : pollo, chicken parts pre-browned, and cooking time with rice of *30* : minutes, i.e. more time even though chicken already slightly cooked. : : I don't want to tell you how badly I misjudged the timing on the : Christmas roast because I followed his instructions to the letter. Had I : compared notes on timing with other cookbooks, and maybe asked somebody, : I would have realized that his times were way too short to cook that : prime rib. I had to keep putting it back in the oven for another hour, : while the Yorkshire pudding collapsed, and the thing was still barely : cooked. (My in-laws read my posts, and had I only asked them, they would : have told me. So now my humiliation is revealed...) : : Can it be that he doesn't test his recipes? He seems so precise and : organized... : : Others have posted about problems with his recipes. I feel so let down! : His philosophy and _style_ and techniques make lots of sense to me, so I'm : disappointed. : : (I do wonder why I take these cookbook crushes so personally...oh well, : who else would understand besides you guys?) : : Leila : Hello Leila, I can't comment on Bittman's recipes but I've also had failures following recipes from famous chefs.  I've always assumed it was me at fault but now I think I'm onto the real problem. I just bought The Bread Maker's Apprentice .  In the book I read that bakers measure everything by weight and write the recipes in percentage terms ie salt is 2% of the weight of the flour, water 60% etc.  The author makes the point that this is done because there can be anywhere from 3.5 to 4.5 cups of flour per pound, depending on who is doing the scooping.  This is a much more definite and exact method of writing the recipe and it's easily scalable, to boot. When I last made bread I measured all the ingredients (for my normal recipe) by weight and used an amount of water (percentage of the flour weight)in the middle of the normal range .  The bread turned out really good.  Accidental maybe, but the point is that now I have an unambiguous recipe to work from, which I can duplicate. I'm going to apply this scheme to other recipes that I try - essentially recasting the recipe into a more exact format.  That way, if the result is good I'll know how to duplicate it.  If not, I'll be in better position to make intelligent adjustments.  I think if I do that there will still be work to do though because the total size of the recipe obviously affects the cooking time too (unless you are able to magically scale up the size of the heating equipment).  For example, I cook poached eggs in the same sized pan with the same volume of water regardless of how many I cook.  It takes a lot longer to poach twelve eggs than one because the larger number of eggs cools the water a lot more.  It's easy to see when the eggs are done regardless of the number, but it may be tougher to tell with other food items. Not a flawless plan but a good start?  What do you think? John Kanes (searching for repeatable results)

Doubts about Mark Bittman   Group: rec.food.cooking Date: Sat, Jun 15, 2002, 11:10pm (EDT-3) From: This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it (Leila Abu-Saba) I have been posting and raving about him here for quite some time. BUT I seem to notice that his cooking times are off. (snip)

John Kanes says... : Leila Abu-Saba says... : : I have been posting and raving about him here for quite some time. BUT I : : seem to notice that his cooking times are off. I blamed myself at first. : : But the other night I did a chicken and rice from MB Cooks at Home. : : After sauteeing onions, then rice, you're supposed to add boiling water : : and raw chicken parts (which have had no other pre-cookign, browning : : etc.) and then cook for 20 minutes. That seemed awfully short to me, but : : I thought hey, I've cut the breast into 4, and separated wings and leg : : parts. : : : : Of course the drumstick was still bloody after 20 minutes, and even the : : rice was still crunchy (regular white rice). It needed more like 45 : : minutes. : : : : When I checked his other book for chicken and rice, I found arroz con : : pollo, chicken parts pre-browned, and cooking time with rice of *30* : : minutes, i.e. more time even though chicken already slightly cooked. : : : : I don't want to tell you how badly I misjudged the timing on the : : Christmas roast because I followed his instructions to the letter. Had I : : compared notes on timing with other cookbooks, and maybe asked somebody, : : I would have realized that his times were way too short to cook that : : prime rib. I had to keep putting it back in the oven for another hour, : : while the Yorkshire pudding collapsed, and the thing was still barely : : cooked. (My in-laws read my posts, and had I only asked them, they would : : have told me. So now my humiliation is revealed...) : : : : Can it be that he doesn't test his recipes? He seems so precise and : : organized... : : : : Others have posted about problems with his recipes. I feel so let down! : : His philosophy and _style_ and techniques make lots of sense to me, so I'm : : disappointed. : : : : (I do wonder why I take these cookbook crushes so personally...oh well, : : who else would understand besides you guys?) : : : : Leila : : : : Hello Leila, : : I can't comment on Bittman's recipes but I've also had failures : following recipes from famous chefs.  I've always assumed it was me at : fault but now I think I'm onto the real problem. : : I just bought The Bread Maker's Apprentice .  In the book I read that : bakers measure everything by weight and write the recipes in percentage : terms ie salt is 2% of the weight of the flour, water 60% etc.  The : author makes the point that this is done because there can be anywhere : from 3.5 to 4.5 cups of flour per pound, depending on who is doing the : scooping.  This is a much more definite and exact method of writing the : recipe and it's easily scalable, to boot. : : When I last made bread I measured all the ingredients (for my normal : recipe) by weight and used an amount of water (percentage of the flour : weight)in the middle of the normal range .  The bread turned out really : good.  Accidental maybe, but the point is that now I have an unambiguous : recipe to work from, which I can duplicate. : : I'm going to apply this scheme to other recipes that I try - essentially : recasting the recipe into a more exact format.  That way, if the result : is good I'll know how to duplicate it.  If not, I'll be in better : position to make intelligent adjustments.  I think if I do that there : will still be work to do though because the total size of the recipe : obviously affects the cooking time too (unless you are able to magically : scale up the size of the heating equipment).  For example, I cook : poached eggs in the same sized pan with the same volume of water : regardless of how many I cook.  It takes a lot longer to poach twelve : eggs than one because the larger number of eggs cools the water a lot : more.  It's easy to see when the eggs are done regardless of the number, : but it may be tougher to tell with other food items. : : Not a flawless plan but a good start?  What do you think? : : John Kanes (searching for repeatable results) : Um, that should be The Bread Baker's Apprentice .  Attention to detail might be important too.  Sigh.