Ah, yes, welcome back Melinda. ?Are you saying here that respecting the feelings of all involved is a bad thing? It is a bad thing if doing so means that nothing good can get accomplished because everybody is fighting constantly. ? Lets face it, the majority of adopters do not want the general public to know the truth about how infants were and are being stolen from their parents. Oh for crying out loud, won't you ever understand that life is more complicated than this?  You don't have a clue whether the majority of adopters even think about the subject, much less what they want the public to know. Even those who adopted decades ago, in the time when the adopters never met and never participated in any coercion or even knew it was taking place, they simply don't want their friends, neighbors and families coming to find out that the mothers of children they adopted were coerced and the fathers were never even consulted about the adoptions. ? They prefer it all remain a deep dark secret so they can be the savior who saved the unwanted babies ?from living in foster care. Again with the All-seeing Eye of Agamotto!   I thought you might have come around a bit, but you're still a bigot when it comes to adoptive parents. (Bigot: a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, life_style_s, or identities differing from his or her own.  The origin of the word bigot in English dates back to at least 1598, via Middle French, and started with the sense of religious hypocrite , especially a woman. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to their prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false.) Project much? ?It seems to me that you are trying to say that Origins is better because it excludes a vital part of an adoptees life. ?Their aparnets. ?Before you go ballistic, I didn't downplay the vital part of the bparents, I simply recognize that both are vital. ?But Origins is apparently (according to what you wrote above) a prejudicial group that also thinks it is better because of the prejudice it practices. Anyone else get that gist from her post? Absolely. ?No organization that includes all people will ever accomplish anything. ?The goals are all too different. ?The adoptees are focused on open-records, on protecting their rights, and treating them with the same dignity and rights that all people have to. ?The natural parents share that desire for the adoptee, but the adoptees don't usually share in the things that the natural families find most important. ?They want acknowledgment that their rights were violated, their children stolen from them without just cause. ?That pain doesn't heal even when their babies are 20, and 30 and 40 years old. ? As all parents of adult age children know, your kids don't stop being your kids when they are legally adults. ? Being a parent is a life long sentence without parol. ? ? ?The adopters most general don't want the fraud, coercion and other mistreatment exposed. ?They want to put the past in the past and bury it. ? If they were allowed in a group like origins, 99% of them would only be there to cause friction and try to tear the group apart. And a paranoid bigot to boot, it seems. J.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Go Read a while at HEar my voice.   Then tell me my prejudice is unfounded.    I have found far fewer exceptions than I have found those who fit in perfectly as I described.  Although I do know and respect several such exceptions. Melinda- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hear My Voice is not representative of anyone other than those who post there.  Of course it's full of lunatics; it's simply the other end of the spectrum from Origins. J.

< snip See the hassle doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is my amom finding out and pitching a fit how I don't care about/respect them etc. I know what you mean.  A friend of mine changed his legal name and his biological parents threw a royal hissy fit.  Parents are funny 'bout that kind of thing. When I move to London, I will do it though right before I go, or that is what I am telling myself, plus my original name is very English, not American and sounds weird here. But the odd thing is, I feel like I am lying every single time I tell people my name, it is a creepy feeling, my adoptive name most certainly sounds like a lie to my ears though. I'm sure if you explain it that way, your amom will understand completely. Dad I never said that Dad but I will remind you what I did say and what I stand by 99.5% of adoptive parents have no clue what adoption is like from the adoptees p.o. v Does that work both ways?  Do 99.5% of adoptees have no clue what adoption is like from the aparents p.o.v.? 'Cuz you seem to be in the .5% who is certain what it is like for them. Kathy 1 Adoptee - just in case you think I'm one of 'them' - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I would guess probably people who don't adopt don't know what it is like, I don't claim to know, adoption doesn't appeal to me. I think I have a pretty good idea about what is what like for MY adoptive parents, I pay attention to them, what they say and don't say, they are very important people to me. But I do think the onus is on the adoptive parent to understand the child they are raising, your question seems to me to coming from a place of equality that I don't agree with, the adoption triangle, triad, or as I like to call it triage, is not equal, we are not all equal partners in it, we don't have equal power, rights and responsibilities, and if it is not clear to you from my posts I will say, I am all about the adoptee. That is where my loyalties lay.

I think she got bored with us Well, we are rather boring, under normal circumstances, don't you think?. and took off  . . . .maybe it's because her favorite punching bag hasn't been around for a few days.. Missing the show already, Dad? Like roadkill, I can't keep my eyes turned away. Whatever. I think you may have missed the introductory low blows delivered by by said punchee. Said punchee was definitely out of line, no doubt. Like, they were so far below the belt as to be out of your Olympian line of vision. Nah, I saw 'em.  In the battle of wits that ensued, I guess I got caught up rooting for the underdog.  My apologies. Dad I have just been busy, I do lots of stuff, see Two-Dot Jack for reference. And unless you have been stalking me Dad, which I don't think so, no you don't know about the history of me and Two-Dot, Hell no one knows all the ins and outs but the two of us.  Some things no matter how much I loathe a person I don't repeat. If I had her nature, I could seriously wound not only her but dear friends of hers.  I won't, I haven't, I will not. I will not make alluding posts about people close to her and their intimate relationships, although I am mean enough to say I could, as shitty as I have been to her, I am capable of being a lot worse, except not really, a girl does have to sleep at night you know. In other words, I have the ammo, just unwilling to shoot. I just couldn't resist when she was over here calling me mod-coddled to give her the opportunity to test her theory out. And no I don't care about whether or not you are receptive to my point of view.  I am used to that, I have spent my whole life with people telling me, not everyone feels the way I do, I should be grateful that I was adopted, my natural family means nothing et al. It is expected. Not saying YOU said those things, just saying with that kind of back drop, I didn't exactly go slack-jawed with differing points of view.

I think I have a pretty good idea about what is what like for MY adoptive parents, I pay attention to them, what they say and don't say, they are very important people to me. But I do think the onus is on the adoptive parent to understand the child they are raising, your question seems to me to coming from a place of equality that I don't agree with, the adoption triangle, triad, or as I like to call it triage, is not equal, we are not all equal partners in it, we don't have equal power, rights and responsibilities, and if it is not clear to you from my posts I will say, I am all about the adoptee. I think you're right about the onus being on the parents of the child - as, frankly, it is for all raising parents whether the child is bio, adopted, or foster. But once the child is grown, I think it does become more equal. Then, hopefully, it becomes a situation where the adult sons and daughters can start trying to understand the parents who raised them - and perhaps use that to gain some insights into themselves in their parental role, if the choose to take that on. My feeling is that somewhere between the ages of 20 and 30, things start to shift. Eventually, by the 40s and 50s, it is the sons and daughters who have to understand the needs and situations of their aging parents.

I think I have a pretty good idea about what is what like for MY adoptive parents, I pay attention to them, what they say and don't say, they are very important people to me. But I do think the onus is on the adoptive parent to understand the child they are raising, your question seems to me to coming from a place of equality that I don't agree with, the adoption triangle, triad, or as I like to call it triage, is not equal, we are not all equal partners in it, we don't have equal power, rights and responsibilities, and if it is not clear to you from my posts I will say, I am all about the adoptee. I think you're right about the onus being on the parents of the child - as, frankly, it is for all raising parents whether the child is bio, adopted, or foster. But once the child is grown, I think it does become more equal. Then, hopefully, it becomes a situation where the adult sons and daughters can start trying to understand the parents who raised them - and perhaps use that to gain some insights into themselves in their parental role, if the choose to take that on. My feeling is that somewhere between the ages of 20 and 30, things start to shift. Eventually, by the 40s and 50s, it is the sons and daughters who have to understand the needs and situations of their aging parents. I understand what you are saying, but for my own very personal experience that no one esle feels like, I DID tap into my adoptive parents feelings A LOT when I was a child. I wanted to understand them then.  And I had a child very young, and I understood the inherent weirdness, demands that children present in one's life.  What has actually taken me a lot longer is to understand that I don't need to view my life through my adoptive parents needs. I am an empathetic person, not always obviously, have behaved rather cruelly on this fourm, but then I don't love two-dot, I DO love my aparents. For me and as it has been established, not everyone feels like me, but for me, I think for way too many years I tried to see things from my aparents point of view, and that, that belief that I was obligated to do such, that I OWED it to them caused not only myself great harm, but many of the people I came in contact with.