Hi all, I agree with this idea of universal sharing, but only if no money is involved. If money is involved ( and so a notion of profit ), in a way or another, it is called business. For me, sharing means divide something in a fair, equal way . Both parties are supposed to have exactly the same benefit at the end of the process. Unfortunately, if only one makes money from this sharing, we cannot say that it is fair. As well if one is making more money than the other... I also consider that, to be fair, the process of sharing must be evaluated within a certain continuity, onto a certain time period... Well, this is already extremely difficult to quantify that between 2 people... imagine in a whole human community ! Simply impossible... There will be real sharing the day the whole humanity decides to cure the social cancer that money and profit are... I don't think this is for tomorrow. Ok, ok... I disgress from fp subject... In reading well all the recent posts about the sharing issue, I am impressed that each one is ready to share, as long as there is a personal benefit at the end. For Gary, it is because the people you teach refer literally hundreds of people to the SNAZAROO product line For Sophia, it is because some of them now regularly freelance for me and have helped me to grow my own business For Marcela, it has come back to me ten times fold Robyn is ok to earn more money, to find new staff, and to increase the professionalism and respect of  Facepainters Or Erika, in her implacable demonstration, who has 2 others working fairly steadily and she made 50% of what the other two workers took in, which was nearly 100% more than she would have made at the gig all by herself On the other side, those who are not ok to share are the ones who cannot find, or see, any satisfying profit or compensation, like Shannon etc...... I would be curious how many of us would be ok to share their knowledge ( within actual business conditions ) if there was absolutely NO profit at all, in any way, to make at the end. Personally, I do not consider that I share my knowledge, I sell it. I am a face painting teacher, it's my business. Olivier PS : a little of philosophy for everybody... I will agree with you that it is silly to try to sell something that I do not loose at the end of the process. Think about it... If I possess a watch, and if you come and ask me to give it to you, I have good reasons to refuse, because if I don't I won't have no watch anymore... But if you ask me what time is it ? Do I have any reason to refuse as I won't loose anything in answering you ??? Albert Jacquard, French scientist and philosoph. Sadly, I found one reason : if I have to pay every month just to possess this watch ( because somebody wants to make profit on me... ), will I be tempted ( or obliged  ) to ask money to those who ask me what time is it ? curious ? check  http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Distributism

This reminds me of something my old teacher animation taught us. We were on a train once with the whole class, coming back from a schooltrip. There was a man in our carriage who had figured out we were art-students, and he had asked if we would mind drawing cartoons of him. Most people were happy to, but our teacher flat-out refused. He said; I make my living with my drawings, therefore I won't give any away for free. A baker isn't going to give away free bread, so I don't see why I should. It made me see my ability to draw in a different way; this isn't just a means to amuse myself and others, it can be a serious way to make yourself a living. And there is no harm in treating it that way. - Chrischa

This thread did not start out with a subject of giving your  work away. It was about training other people in your area. Some people were  threatened by training others for fear that it would be competition for them.  Most of us who answered said it behooves us because we are raising the bar on  face painting as a true art, training people (for money) who could possibly work  for us in the future. I believe that we are a community in and of itself. I also  feel we must stay connected and not be influenced with any negative remarks that   some people feel. It only takes one to change the energy of the list. MONEY is   the medium of exchange. We are OUR BUSINESS, no one can take YOU away for   YOU!  The orange tree that the farmer planted sells his oranges for profit,  the people who purchase the oranges gain all the  nutrients and  values the orange has to offer, the farmer makes  his money thus far everyone is happy. Exchange for exchange, Life is a  beautiful thing. We are not all puffed up on non reality

Thank you, Cynthia. I think the key is "balance," and, like you, I suspect that is different for each of us.
IMHO, we have a responsibility to provide for ourselves and our families, but we also have a responsibility to share with others the gifts we have been given.
The thing to remember is that when we hoard our assets, we make everyone poorer.








From: "Cynthia Keeler" <cynkeeler@earth_link_.net
Reply-To: cynkeeler@earth_link_.net
To: "Olivier Zegers" < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it , "facepainthq" < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
Subject: FPHQ Sharing
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:45:36 -0400


People in EVERY field have the opportunity to "mentor" for free, to "give"
away their knowledge or to "choose" to make a profit. Depending on the day,
my schedule, my financial needs, that might dictate the sharing of my
knowledge for free or teaching for a profit. When you do something "for a
living" sometimes it is hard to give that away too often. That is why so
many hobbyists volunteer their time to face paint, take photos etc. , just
for the pure love and experience of it. Their main income comes from
another
source. When something becomes your job, your livelihood, that
changes everything. Then you have to decide how much of your livelihood you
can afford to give away. How much you can "tithe" back to the
community.Life is a give and take. Some "give" more than others, others err
on the side of "taking" more than they give. Each person has to find that
balance in their own life.
Much Respect,
Cynthia

Cynthia Keeler
Conus Keeler Productions, Inc.
Face Painting and Body Art Association and FABAI Convention
www.fpbaa.com or www.faceandbodyart.net
cynkeeler@earth_link_.net

"He who forecasts all perils will never sail the sea"
Anonymous


[Original Message]
From: Olivier Zegers < This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
To: facepainthq
< This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
Date: 3/25/2007 10:32:51 AM
Subject: FPHQ Sharing


Hi all,


I agree with this idea of universal sharing, but only if no money is
involved.
If money is involved ( and so a notion of profit ), in a way or
another, it is called business.

For me, sharing means "divide something in a fair, equal way". Both
parties are supposed to have exactly the same benefit at the end of
the process. Unfortunately, if only one makes money from this sharing,
we cannot say that it is fair. As well if one is making more money
than the other...
I also consider that, to be fair, the process of sharing must be
evaluated within a certain
continuity, onto a certain time period...

Well, this is already extremely difficult to quantify that between 2
people... imagine in a whole human community !
Simply impossible...

There will be real sharing the day the whole humanity decides to cure
the social cancer that money and profit are...
I don't think this is for tomorrow.

Ok, ok... I disgress from fp subject...

In reading well all the recent posts about the sharing issue, I am
impressed that each one is ready to share, as long as there is a
personal benefit at the end.

For Gary, it is because the people you teach "refer literally hundreds
of people to the SNAZAROO product line"
For Sophia, it is
because "some of them now regularly freelance for me
and have helped me to grow my own business"
For Marcela, "it has come back to me ten times fold"
Robyn is ok "to earn more money, to find new staff, and to increase
the professionalism and respect of Facepainters"
Or Erika, in her implacable demonstration, who has "2 others working
fairly steadily and she made 50% of what the other two workers took
in, which was nearly 100% more than she would have made at the gig all
by herself"

On the other side, those who are not ok to share are the ones who
cannot find, or see, any satisfying profit or compensation, like
Shannon etc......

I would be curious how many of us would be ok to share their knowledge

( within actual business conditions ) if there was absolutely NO
profit at all, in any way, to make at the end.

Personally, I do not consider that I share my knowledge, I sell it. I
am a face painting teacher, it's my business.

Olivier

PS : a little of philosophy for everybody...

I will agree with you that it is silly to try to sell something that I
do not loose at the end of the process.
Think about it...

"If I possess a watch, and if you come and ask me to give it to you, I
have good reasons to refuse, because if I don't I won't have no watch
anymore...
But if you ask me what time is it ? Do I have any reason to refuse as
I won't loose anything in
answering you ???"
Albert Jacquard, French scientist and philosoph.

Sadly, I found one reason : if I have to "pay" every month just to
possess this watch ( because somebody wants to make profit on me... ),
will I be tempted ( or obliged ) to ask money to those who ask me
what time is it ?

curious ?
check http://www.p2pfoundation.net/Distributism